tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3588565972107797714.post5104205986039796594..comments2023-09-11T05:17:45.164-04:00Comments on Be A Watchman: The deception of a pre-tribulation raptureAnonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03388067627182097653noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3588565972107797714.post-24875568868416952682013-03-13T00:51:16.839-04:002013-03-13T00:51:16.839-04:00[Amen, Kathe. What follows was seen on the web. A ...[Amen, Kathe. What follows was seen on the web. A great read.]<br /><br />(This article reveals some research that is No. 1 on the "hate list" of many "fundy" Christians because it shows that their idolized "rapture" belief - the inspiration behind Lindsey's and LaHaye's all-time bestsellers - is only a 19th century invention and that credit long given to John Darby for it should go to a long unknown 15-year-old girl in Scotland!)<br /><br /><br />Margaret Macdonald's Rapture Chart !<br /><br /> "church" RAPTURE "church"<br />(present age) (tribulation)<br /><br /> In early 1830 Margaret was the very first one to see a pre-Antichrist (pretribulation) rapture in the Bible - and John Walvoord and Hal Lindsey lend support for this claim!<br /> Walvoord's "Rapture Question" (1979) says her view resembles the "partial-rapture view" and Lindsey's "The Rapture" (1983) admits that "she definitely teaches a partial rapture."<br /> But there's more. Lindsey (p. 26) says that partial rapturists see only "spiritual" Christians in the rapture and "unspiritual" ones left behind to endure Antichrist's trial. And Walvoord (p. 97) calls partial rapturists "pretribulationists"!<br /> Margaret's pretrib view was a partial rapture form of it since only those "filled with the Spirit" would be raptured before the revealing of the Antichrist. A few critics, who've been repeating more than researching, have noted "Church" in the tribulation section of her account. Since they haven't known that all partial rapturists see "Church" on earth after their pretrib rapture (see the "church-splitting" chart above), they've wrongly assumed that Margaret was a posttrib!<br /> In Sep. 1830 Edward Irving's journal "The Morning Watch" (hereafter: TMW) was the first to publicly reflect her novel view when it saw spiritual "Philadelphia" raptured before "the great tribulation" and unspiritual "Laodicea" left on earth.<br /> In Dec. 1830 John Darby (the so-called "father of dispensationalism" even though he wasn't first on any crucial aspect of it!) was still defending the historic posttrib rapture view in the "Christian Herald."<br /> Pretrib didn't spring from a "church/Israel" dichotomy, as many have assumed, but sprang from a "church/church" one, as we've seen, and was based only on symbols!<br /> But innate anti-Jewishness soon appeared. (As noted, TMW in Sep. 1830 saw only less worthy church members left behind.) In Sep. 1832 TMW said that less worthy church members and "Jews" would be left behind. But by Mar. 1833 TMW was sure that only "Jews" would face the Antichrist!<br /> As late as 1837 the non-dichotomous Darby saw the church "going in with Him to the marriage, to wit, with Jerusalem and the Jews." And he didn't clearly teach pretrib until 1839. His basis then was the Rev. 12:5 "man child...caught up" symbol he'd "borrowed" (without giving credit) from Irving who had been the first to use it for the same purpose in 1831!<br /> For related articles Google "X-Raying Margaret," "Edward Irving is Unnerving," "Pretrib Rapture's Missing Lines," "The Unoriginal John Darby," "Open Letter to Todd Strandberg," "Deceiving and Being Deceived" by D.M., "Pretrib Rapture Pride," "Pretrib Rapture Dishonesty" and "Scholars Weigh My Research." The most documented and accurate book on pretrib rapture history is "The Rapture Plot" (see Armageddon Books online) - a 300-pager that has hundreds of disarming facts (like the ones above) not found in any other source.Rocky2https://www.blogger.com/profile/04154389992453412024noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3588565972107797714.post-33596081914869849952012-09-24T09:25:36.157-04:002012-09-24T09:25:36.157-04:00Nik K,
I appreciate your comments. Regardless of...Nik K,<br /><br />I appreciate your comments. Regardless of where the rapture doctrine started it is a false doctrine. <br /><br />If you search out the truth Biblically you will find that rapture theorists hang their entire doctrine on one or two verses. They have to twist the entire book of Matthew to say it was for the "Jews" only (which is whole different subject). Anyway, believe what you will. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03388067627182097653noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3588565972107797714.post-41372679648346691652012-02-09T05:51:36.560-05:002012-02-09T05:51:36.560-05:00Kathe, the argument that Mr. Darby invented the ra...Kathe, the argument that Mr. Darby invented the rapture and was influenced by MacDonald has been spreading for many years now. It's not true, I don't think. It's just that once the Roman Catholic Church established itself as discerner of all spiritual truth, it wiped out any truths that presented threats to its authority and invented other doctrines to reinforce its stranglehold over all of Christendom. The Reformation came and went and the Protestants tried to reinstitute Biblical truth. But having been trained as Catholics for so long, that way of thinking had so permeated their psyche that they had a hard time letting go of some things, and their Catholic rearing affected their interpretation of Scripture for the rest of their lives. That Catholic influence would continue into subsequent generations, as well. The most pressing truths to the spiritual life of the Church that had been lost were reestablished fairly quickly, but some of the rest has been a long time in returning. The Rapture doctrine was therefore REdiscovered. Not invented. Interestingly, the most amazing evidences of the Rapture come from the metaphors we see in the Old Testament. If you would like an accounting, I would be pleased to provide you my own attempt at one. But I would just end by saying this: the point has never been that the Rapture saves Christians from bad stuff. We've suffered since the beginning and we will suffer until the end. But the point is that God will never judge us. The Tribulation is God's judgment of the world. So to judge us along with the rest of the world would be like our Father judging Christ, whose righteousness has been imputed to us. As God judges the world we must be removed because He will never ever judge them that believe, neither will we receive any condemnation. It's a rather beautiful promise, don't you think?Nik Knoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3588565972107797714.post-37976532814850329942011-03-25T13:56:03.239-04:002011-03-25T13:56:03.239-04:00@ Jeff
The Church Fathers suffered under persecut...@ Jeff<br /><br />The Church Fathers suffered under persecution for Jesus Christ (or Yahshua as you call Him - the Bible calls Him Iesous); many of them were martyred for Him; they lived holy lives characterized by repentance, struggle against sin, and love for God and neighbor; they defended the Gospel against numerous heresies; they preserved for us the Biblical teachings about the Holy Trinity and the Incarnation of the Logos; they recognized and canonized the Scriptures that you and I hold dear: they held fast to the faith once and for all delivered to the saints.JLnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3588565972107797714.post-65869570401139017962011-01-24T01:37:33.543-05:002011-01-24T01:37:33.543-05:00God's Holy Spirit gives truth to those who ask...God's Holy Spirit gives truth to those who ask. You seeked and knocked and the door was opened. However, there is so much more truth that Christians are being lied to about from most all of our pulpits today. The door has been opened but stairs need to be climbed for more truth that will add to your armor in the end of days. (I still have many to climb myself)If you can answer this question it will open your eyes to many things. <br />In Rev 2 & 3, The seven churches are discussed. Out of the seven churches God finds no fault with two of them. Of these two churches what did they know the other five didn't? And because of this knowledge why was one of these Two churches going to persecuted, imprisoned and possibly put to death? <br />We must all seek the truth of the Holy Word to show ourselves worthy in those last days.mqg25noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3588565972107797714.post-11688000905078965912010-12-05T21:10:30.661-05:002010-12-05T21:10:30.661-05:00I know it's an old post now, but for anybody w...I know it's an old post now, but for anybody who wants a good solid scriptural foundation as to why the rapture is a completely false doctrine, I reccommend http://www.bibleunderstanding.com/pastissues.htmzagglehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14166055437657964933noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3588565972107797714.post-17671830222726188132010-05-15T19:28:22.771-04:002010-05-15T19:28:22.771-04:00Also remember that most 'church fathers' (...Also remember that most 'church fathers' (used by the abomination world church) were not followers of Yahshua and did not hold to the truth. Yet they were/are used to back up the one world false church today still, to keep their members utterly deceived and to keep them from finding and from entering the Kingdom of G_d.j.elohimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12717322476053188567noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3588565972107797714.post-32756788404324805592009-04-01T20:29:00.000-04:002009-04-01T20:29:00.000-04:00Casey,The Church Fathers were NOT Amillenial. Whoe...Casey,<BR/>The Church Fathers were NOT Amillenial. Whoever told you that was lying or misled. Augustine started that stuff and it's stench still remains among us.Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09871900117966093499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3588565972107797714.post-13095067932304063502008-01-25T06:45:00.000-05:002008-01-25T06:45:00.000-05:00I ran across your blog link while trying to find m...I ran across your blog link while trying to find more details about Maryland's tax proposal on tanning salons.<BR/><BR/>Most early church fathers held to the amillinist position. It's great you were able to see some of the fallacies in pre-trib doctrine.<BR/><BR/>CaseyCaseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01268766133264120640noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3588565972107797714.post-43897359266995428632008-01-11T14:03:00.000-05:002008-01-11T14:03:00.000-05:00BTW - the book and the online article are by Dave ...BTW - the book and the online article are by Dave MacPherson. The article can be found at http://www.theologue.org/PRETRIBDESPERADOS-DaveMacPherson.html<BR/><BR/>KatheAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03388067627182097653noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3588565972107797714.post-11810345643217961492008-01-11T14:00:00.000-05:002008-01-11T14:00:00.000-05:00Thanks Irv. I'll check out the book. Thanks for ...Thanks Irv. I'll check out the book. Thanks for the comment. KatheAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03388067627182097653noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3588565972107797714.post-40175194143985503872007-12-29T22:54:00.000-05:002007-12-29T22:54:00.000-05:00Great blog! I agree with you! Ran into an intrigui...Great blog! I agree with you! Ran into an intriguing article on google titled "Pretrib Rapture Desperados." It is by the author of the bestselling book THE RAPTURE PLOT (Armageddon Books online). A super great read! IrvIrvhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16549518736967629192noreply@blogger.com